Thetis Bringing Armor to Achilles by Benjamin WestToday in class we learned that William Blake referred to The Bible as the Great Code of Art. Dr. Evans refers to Homer's Iliad as "the other side of this code," making it "complete". Explain the implications of Dr. Evans' claim. How should we then read the text? To what should we pay careful attention?
Additionally, what are the chief characteristics of Homer's Heroes? Remember that we are looking at the concept of heroism in its objective form. Having a moral code does not make one a hero. Instead, as stated in class, risk taking "is central to the idea of heroism".
Your entry answering the above questions should be no shorter than two paragraphs and no longer than four.
The Bible as the Great Code of Art
ReplyDeleteIf the Bible is the Great Code of Art, then its creator must be an artist. According to Blake, “the man who never in his mind and thoughts travel’d to heaven is no artist”. If the Bible is a work of art is because it is itself creativity, creation, praise. To appreciate a work of art one must take a leap of faith and adventure in a maneuvered reality.
Iliad is a word that means “a poem about Ilium”, a poem that portrays with vivid descriptions the vices of humankind. The Bible is also a poem. However, it speaks of the greatness of God. In the Iliad, men are pawns in the cruel game of chess played by the gods, gods that are as flawed as mortals themselves. Heroes in both poems seek immortality. In the Iliad heroes undertake a quest for honor because they see in it the closest thing to immortality. Heroes in the Bible also believe in immortality but theirs is achieved not through the honor of their name, but through faith, the greatest feat.
Achilles is the perfect example of Homer’s heroes. The man of honor, praised and respected by his contemporaries, chose a short life but an immortal name; chose risk and with it, honor; chose death and with it, heroism.
There are two major reasons why I'd see the bible as "the great code of art" the first ot them it's bond to the concept of "inspiration", all artists need some of it, and what this word really means is that the act of "in spiring" is connected with act of receiving the Spirit, art is one of the ways humans can contribute with God's creating art as helping to make the creation more beauty full. The second reason is that in the Bible we can find all the human emotions and major behaviours that are worth of been expressed by arts, hope and despair, love and hate, courage and cowardice, friendship and enemy-ship, lust and pureness.
ReplyDeleteThe Iliad is the other side of the code also for two major reasons, the first one is also related to the greatness of emotions and passions expressed there, we can find also all of them, and second its the bond to the bible that we can find there, the Bible is a book inspired by God himself, in the Iliad we read an underlying wish to understand the divine in this case the gods, to try to find the place for humankind, and to try to tell that this life is worth of being lived because our actions will echo in heaven.
The Homeric Heroes presented there have different characteristics, but the one they all share is the sense of honour, the search for the glory ( that in a way is the path the Greeks knew for their transcendence) the iron will, the ability to face the risks, but also the major heroes in the poem Achilles and Hector, have greatness of heart, and they both try to fight only for the right reasons, specially Hector.
Juan CArlos López
If the measure of a man is seen by means of his fight, the warriors of the Iliad are great beacause of their object, being honor. But the "knights" of faith are the greatest, beacause their art consists precisely in the fact that their fight is not the one of the heroe, sucha as honor. But his fight consists precisely on his relation with God. So the risk of the warrior in the Iliad is for the object of honor, and the risk od the knight in the bible is by the object of faith.
ReplyDeleteWe shall read the text of the Iliad for those tragic heroes, as those that show their virtue on doing what they must do< in tha way we see even Agamemnon doing what he must although the consequence of loosing status by giving away his price of war.
Silvano Vitar
In order to answer the first question, I believe it is mandatory to underline what Dr. Evans meant when he stated that the Iliad was a complement to the Bible and because of that, another part of the Code of Art. When someone wants to discover the secret of how great men have accomplished remarkable goals in life, they are seeking for a code of behavior that can teach them what things can be considered as good and the ones that aren´t. The bible on one hand, reveals us who we are and who can we become if we follow Gods word. On the other hand, the Iliad presents the reader the idea of how in western civilization men valued important aspects in life like honor. Having clarified these, now we can proceed to answer the questions.
ReplyDeleteEven though we are not in a belligerent or warfare situation, the Iliad projects what good individuals should acquire in order to be recognize as such. Therefore, when we are reading this epic book, we should underline the most important principles and values that heroes in the story represent, and try to grow as better humans by applying them into our lives. This is why it is relevant to pay special attention to what Homer wants us to realize about the heroes attitudes and behaviors, not only the glorious things but also the bad ones, in order to know what to follow, and off course, what to avoid.
It is accurate to affirm that heroism as an objective concept should not necessarily be related to a moral code or behavior. It is clear, that many heroes in the Iliad do not act morally wise, but reside been categorize as such. In these terms, the chief Homerian characteristics of a hero are as noted in the question, related to the will of self sacrifice or risk taking. This is why an immoral individual that fights with courage and sacrifices his life in this fight can be considered as a hero. Consequently, Homer shows in his novel that braveness, self determination, confidence, courage, eloquence, leadership, arête (skills), physical strength, among others, are characteristics that determine if one is a hero or not. In those terms, someone that is recognize for been honest, but is not willing to take any risk, does not fulfill what a hero is.
“A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles. “ Christopher Reeve
ReplyDeleteNowadays heroism can be associated with physical tributes and behaviors, but it goes far below just body appearance. Homer’s Hero is that one who have the resolution to go farther and forward in their projects; even tough the difficulties seem impossible to overcome. Determination, strength and courage are chief characteristics of this man who always face the problems no mattering it cost their one life’s becoming like this a real honorable person who go forwards in battles of life.
Homer give us a great example with Achilles of a hero, an honorable man capable to cut history in two halves, and last in the regards of humanity.
The code of art can be seen as a perfect and complete combination between Homers poem “the Illiad” with the “Bible”. Such combination of questions, secrets and answers are the path to get a closer understanding of human nature. Virtues, human emotions and human experience are reflected in such an artistic way that sometimes is hard to remember its main purpose which is being a kind of guide to get closer to Gods and world reality
The Bible can be described as the Code of Art. It means that it can be not only read as a religious document or a historical work, but also as an universal source of truth about human nature. A lot of situations, people’s behaviours, emotions, virtues and experiences described in biblical stories can be referred to our life. If we see those themes as ‘coded’, we need to ‘decode’ things written in the Bible (interpret them according to the situation) for full understanding and drawing a conclusion. Moreover, the Bible is a great source of inspiration for different kinds of art and it is the second meaning of being the Code of Art.
ReplyDeleteThe Iliad can be also seen as a kind of Code of Art, so it can be a complement to the Bible. Both those works can be useful tools for us to search answers for questions that come to our minds, such as ‘What should I do to be a good man?’, ‘Who am I?’, ‘Who can I become and what can I do in my life?’. Although situation of war is not the situation we live in, there are always love, hate, family, friendship, desire of glory, choices to make. The Iliad can be therefore seen as a source of toposes, universal for many people, and interpreted in terms of specific human behaviours and their concequences.
Heroes described in the Iliad are showed as full of courage, confidence and determination, they do not give up even in case of danger and possibility of defeat. Such qualities of heroism may encourage readers to behave in a similar way, especially in problematic situations (one should continue despite difficulties) as well as bring change to the readers’ attitude to life.
The Iliad primarily depicts the actions of men at war. It provides us with all kinds of virtuous and vicious conducts and their consequences. Being the Code of Art it enables the readers to find themselves in those images. It invites us to ask ourselves what we would do in the given character’s position, what we have done while being in similar one, or what results our actions brought, and then to compare our answers with the ones provided by Homer. To my mind it is crucial to realize, that the battlefield in the poem does not necessarily refer to the material place where substantial opponent warriors combat. I believe it more often doesn’t than does. That's what makes it a Code.
ReplyDeleteBy saying that the Iliad depicts what happens at war I would not want to dismiss all the other things described by Homer, which take place aside of it. In my opinion the fact that they appear on one hand provides us with even more images to dwell on, on the other it emphasizes the fact that battle is in the center of our lives (or should be). As I see it, it is for us to decide what we will be fighting for, what against, and how.
The answer to the last matter, to the way we will fight, is to some extent provided by the virtues of a heroic figure – which, among others, are: endurance, eloquence, courage, power and, most importantly, arête. I say “most importantly”, because it’s the broadest one. The judgment of someone’s actions in terms of the other four is not overly complicated, but in order to say whether one is excellent in all things important one needs to define them first.
I expect that’s what we’re about to do in the course of this classes, but the task goes beyond that. It is a kind of assignment one will never be explicitly done with.
1. Life would be much easier if across time we knew what to do, however, history is there to tell us which actions should not be repeated. As well, we can find people whose existence was or is worth of admiration and can illustrate us a path that should be a common objective to all of us, in the hope of making the world a better place. Another place where we can look for inspiration or guidance are the Bible and the Iliad.
ReplyDeleteThis book complements each other. The Iliad can show similar or different behavior in human beans than the Bible, aspects that can even be forbidden in the Bible but that we can denied are part of human nature; rage, possessiveness, pride, among other characteristics that can be unwanted in the Bible as a right conduct. That doesn’t mean that in the Iliad are approved; however, those are the frills of the heroes in the story. What the books then together do is to show us the correct proportion. As an external reader we then should be able to size along the lines, the right proportion of those characteristics. We can highlight that everything in excess is dangerous.
Also, the main suggestion both books say is that as human beings we are the only ones who can do something for the sake of our life and our society.
2. As the Iliad is a war narrative the most common characteristic among Homer Heroes is that they’re great warriors. They have a lot of pride, hungry of fame, they’re stubborn, fearless of dead…they’re on the search of military and eternal glory, they protect their honor. Also, is important to remember how they’re on the gods wings, meaning, they are helped by them. It’s important to remember that not because he is a hero he is a good person. Achilles is a hero in the story; however his behavior is not necessary worthy of admiration.
Dr. Evan’s claim that the Illiad and the Bible together make up the “Great Code of Art” means that all of human nature is displayed within these two works, and that we can use them to come to a more full understanding of ourselves and others. To do this, we have to look at the actions of the characters and the motivations for those actions, from Achilles’ desire to become immortalized in legend, to Hector’s desire to protect his city, family, and honor. The Illiad also serves as a warning, as all of the noble souls fighting on both sides of the conflict do horrible deeds when they are overtaken by their desires. Even if they initially fight with the purest of intentions, the horrors and lusts of war drive them to slaughter and disgrace their enemies. They may have earned glory on the battlefield, but it just adds to the tragedy and heartbreak on both sides. Therefore, the Illiad should be read with an eye to emulating the truly great actions and motives, and avoiding the ignoble reasoning and deeds.
ReplyDeleteTo be a Homeric hero, the two most important things required are arête and courage. Arête is the skill in all things important. This may be skill on the battlefield or eloquence. Without the skill required to actually make a difference, one cannot possibly become a hero. However, unless one also has the courage to continuously move forward in battle, they will not be able to really affect what happens. Paris is a great example of this, as he has the archery skill to be a worthwhile warrior, but he does not have the courage to really be a hero, and is therefore despised on both sides of the conflict. Hector is a true hero, because even as his death approaches in the form of Achilles, he does not flee to safety within the walls, despite knowing his fate. Even when he realizes that the gods have set him up to die, he resolves that no matter the end, he will fight with honor and leaps to the attack. He is rewarded for this, as his body is spared from mutilation and he receives a grand funeral and send-off.
Paul Shepanski
Fernando Buchanan Arellano
ReplyDeleteGreat Code of Art. The Bible is considered as a code of art for its use is not only a religious one, but also its a source of wisdom and a way to discover true human nature. Meanwhile the Iliad shows us a face of war, chaos and destruction (the Bible too), but teaches us that even among those places you can find honor, glory, compassion, virtues, Heroes.
Both books complemment each other, as they are the result of Western History, helping us understand true human nature, "The Secret"; But in order to do so we must decode them, as for they are not as simple as one may think; Decode them in a coherent way, finding the truth beyond their words, and not finding only what we hope to find.
As for the Homeric Heroes, in ancient times it appears that heroes were not bond to a reciprocal moral code, but they were bond to honor and glory making them courageous, brave, strong, perseverant. Being a Hero means being risk-taking, risking almost everyting in order to accomplished what you propose to yourself and what you owe to the world.
For William Blake, the Bible was not just a historical writing or a spiritual handbook; it displays the past, present and future of mankind. It says a lot about the nature of human beings and the way it eventually could be. In Dr. Evans’ view the Iliad is complementary to this, in the sense of portraying that part that of mankind that is not fully covered by the Bible alone. They both together are able to provide an answer on our contemporary questions, because the fundaments of our thought lie in the accompanying worldview of these two books. That what we read is inferable to our daily lives. Therefore, we should pay close attention to the tendencies that came up then and still exist today: We can recognize the characteristics of Achilles, Peter, Paris or David in our friends, family members or other people.
ReplyDeleteWe have not defined heroes just as moral good persons. In fact heroes can be really cruel or perverse. I think that the key characteristic of Homer's heroes lays in having a fixed belief, or a strong opinion, in what direction a change is necessary. For the hero, every risk is acceptable on the way to the deeply desired transformation.
Joram Verstoep
In class Dr. Evans mentioned William Blake saying, that the bible is the code of art and the Iliad is the other side of the code of art. Thus we can gain knowledge about some part of inspiration for art, referring to everyday situation. We can furthermore get a deeper understanding of the human nature through the Iliad.
ReplyDeleteThe chief characteristics of the Hero in Homer's epos are Wisdom, Charisma, Humility, Courage, Coherence, Determination, Perseverance, Eloquence,Compassion, Solidarity, Empathy, Leadership, Self-Sacrifice and most important arete. Those terms are just placeholders to describe the "configuration" of an hero but it's much more, because these characteristics have to be perfectly combine to get an understanding of the heroic figure.
Within the Iliad we have a broad range of different people who are perfect in some of those hero's characteristics but lack in others. This is what makes men human - nobody is perfect, not even a warrior hero. But some figures (Hector, Achilles, Odysseus, etc) are pretty close, however, their weaknesses often lead to their own death (e.g Achilles, Patroclus, Hector).
The Bible is considered to be a code of art because it portrays different perspectives of human nature. While the BIble enphasizes the virtues and what humans ought to do to have a virtuos life, the Iliad by Homer,even when it portrays the virtues of the various heroes in the story, stresses that a virtue is most of the times accompanied by a vice. The Iliad, just as the Bible, portrays human nature, human behaviour, human insticts. This should be specially considered when reading the Iliad. Both the BIble and the Iliad are to be thus decoded to understand what they mean and what they teach about human behaviour.
ReplyDeleteAs the Iliad developes in time of war, it is important to notice the attitudes, the virtues and the consequences, but specially the corruption and the damage human beings are able to perform on their equals in such times, and thus reflect upon the decision to enter one.
Homer's heroes share some common characteristics. They are admired warriors by their communities, they are men of honour and courage, always going forward in battle and searching for glory. They are also leaders and a source of inspiration and confidence for the ones fighting besides them. A very important characteristic is Arete, a term used to express the excellence in everything which is trully important.
One thing I didn’t refer to in my previous comment is the leading Heroic figure in the Iliad, namely to Achilles. I believe he represents such virtues of a Homer’s Hero, as strength, resilience, sense of honor, will to take risks, beauty of the body and excellence in martial arts. This is not a finite list, he doesn’t embody all possible and desirable characteristics (eloquence for example). Still he has one feature that all Homer’s heroes hold – he is not flawless. I believe that the one virtue that more often than not leads the protagonists of the poem to misfortune is their pride. Instead of reasoning with their mind, the think either with other parts of the body (Patroclus while abducting Helen), or they take honor as their chief value (Achilles while withdrawing from battle), or they let pride and boastfulness take the lead (Hector while killing Patroclus), and they all pay the prize for doing so. Having that said the virtue I’d add to the list of ones that Homer would expect from a true rather than tragic hero is the constancy in prudence.
ReplyDeleteAs professor Evans said, art is everything that reflects the human nature, and a code is a combination of signs that, inside a prearranged system, has a specific value. So, The Code of art is a combination of signs that, inside a prearranged system, reflects the human nature. I think that the Bible and the Illiad are codes of art, and not just art because they don’t reflects only the human nature but they contain the primary keys to understanding the essence of the human nature. And they contain those primary keys because both of them show us a group of actions that involves Gods and humans. And when human beings relate to God, they must show its essence because God, who created humans, knows them by their nature, and therefore would be foolish to try to trick you by showing a form when God is able to know the background.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think that the Illiad is complementary to the Bible, because the Bible shows us what God wanted to reveal to the humanity, written by humans, so it’s a dialogue that’s start in God and is answered by humans. And the Illiad shows us how the Gods act in a problem that started in humanity, and they are called to give an answer. So, we should pay attention in both texts in the rich relation between God and humans, and principally to the way that humans act, because in this text the humanity is revealed in its essence, so we can learn about the essence of human behavior. Also, using this text as a code, we can decode how humans beings will act in different situations of the actual human life.
The principle characteristics of the Homeric Heroes are their sense of mission and their determination. The sense of mission, because every character at his moment knows that some things are need to be done no matter the consequence that this could carries to itself. For example Hector knew that he has to challenge Aquiles, although it was very possible that he dies. The determination because when a character realize that he has to act, he goes and makes the thing that has to be done. In the same situation that I describe, Hector realize that he has to challenge Aquiles, and he go and challenge him.
In my opinion, if we want to truly understand the world around us and be able to change it in the future, we need to combine the knowledge that comes from the Bible and the Iliad. These two works complement each other and form a tool to understand what man is and how we can change it.
ReplyDeleteBoth the Bible and in the Iliad we find the profiles of the great heroes, but each is different. Not always a great hero has to be very strong, brave and courageous, sometimes you just have a good and compassionate man.
I think that a combination of these two features gives us a picture close to the ideal -but we need to consider whether we are able to create an ideal that will fit into other times and situations.
Since I took too long to answer, and Dr. Evans already explained what it meant, I will only add what a teacher once said, that makes complete sense to me and I also like it very much. What he said is that God prepared the Earth for Him to come in two different ways: in the Western cultures by the Philosophy, and in the Eastern (middle) cultures by the prophets. The prophets are in the Bible, and even tough the Iliad is not a philosophical writing, it is because of it, and works of its kind, that the Greek philosophers started thinking about the human and the universe which led them to realize the falseness of the myths and their thirst of truth.
ReplyDeleteThe characteristics of heroes that we talked in class are courage, coherence, determination, perseverance, wisdom, charisma, eloquence, idealism, ambition, solidarity, compassion, empathy, passion, leadership, skills, pride, confidence, altruism, mission, loyalty, patriotism, good timing, self-sacrifice, fortitude, physical strength, and to be a seer. But always the most important one is the answer, and constant answers, to accept what the hero – or us – is called to do, and keep doing it.
Sofía R. M.
Dr. Evans refer to the Iliad as “the other side of this code” making it complete, by this statement he obviously meant that the Iliad complements “the great code of art”, the Bible.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, this statement implies that both codes, the Bible and the Iliad holds inside its pages an accurate explanation of the whole human nature and its history, but both works have to complement each other in order to provide us a wider view of the human nature.
Dr Evans also said that a code is a system in which the substance is extremely important, therefore the true meaning of these codes is hidden inside its words, and kept as a secret. So in order to “de code” these codes and discover its secrets we will have to carefully pay attention to the meaning that lies beyond the words.
Santiago de la Peña
The Bible is described as the great code of art, because I believe it shows a part of human nature that highlights its virtues and greatness. In the same way I consider that the Iliad, in the other hand, shows another part of human nature. It may show virtues such as honor, but also shows the animalistic side of human nature that is portrayed in war.
ReplyDeleteBoth are codes since they have to be decoded in order to be understood. In other words, they have to read carefully and between the lines in order to get the message. When we read The Iliad, it’s important to understand that beneath each virtue can also lie a vice, that behind every good deed can also lie a wrong.
Homer’s heroes are real humans. Most of the times we look up to heroes as ideal characters, as fearless protagonists of epics and lives. However, Homer’s heroes also show weaknesses, they cry, they suffer, they fear, they hesitate, they’re proud and resentful. Their heroism, nevertheless, lies in a simple choice. They have chosen to be great; they respond to the call and take the risk.
In my view, both the Bible and Homer's Iliad may be seen as a some kind of "code of art." Namely, these two works have lots of common aspects. Both the Bible and the Iliad in its content contain content that may give rise to talk about human nature, about the human existence etc.
ReplyDeleteBłażej Błaszak (I'm write this homework on Kacper's computer).
The Bible and the Iliad may serve us to learn, as a universal sources of knowledge that can give us important lessons which can be applied to our lives.
In addition to the Bible and the Iliad are a kind of Code of Art, as were and still are an inspiration for artists, politicians, scientists, and many other groups such as the Phoenix Institute that create the reality in which we live.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the real meaning of being a hero consists in leading the world ahead, the hero makes thing happen, they do not go unnoticed, nor alone, they belong to a generation that together they build a history.
ReplyDeleteSo anyway what does being a hero really means? First of all we can ask two questions: for what am I called? In where am I supposed to work and who am I supposed to love? To answer this questions we must think about doing the things and not just wait things to happen by itself. We should make ours the responsability to save the world.
One of the functions of a code is to reveal something, in order to could understand a system or a determined mater; Dr. Evans statement implies the historical impact of both texts into the notion and knowledge of divinity, the world and of the human nature, from the time they were written, until present.
ReplyDeleteReferring to the Iliad, we can find that life is like being in war, there are battles, losses, generosity, heroism, sacrifice, selfishness, good and bad choices. To decode the Iliad, as Dr. Evans propose us, is to read into facts about our identity as human beings and our relation to divinity, but also a challenge to introspect in ourselves, and to decide whether or not to be a hero in the battle of life.
The main characteristics that we can find in Homer´s heroes, are courage, arête, proud, patriotism, magnanimity, perseverance, eloquence, to get glory and honor, in which all of the others are supported. I like that even in the more desperate situations, when there´s no chances to triumph, or even when death is inevitable, Homer´s heroes steal have enough character and courage to face those extremely situations, and be victorious in the way that they will transcend.
Nowadays, it seems really hard to consider a Bible and ancient Greek culture as a 'Great Codes of Art'. I think, that the one of the reasons is historicism, which changed profoundly all Western culture. Nowadays, we don't see heroism in ancient way. historicism tries to persuade us that everything depends on times and historical context, saying - "it was possible in Homer's or Moises times, but not post-modern era.' Rejection of historicism, and redefinition of our perspective based on ancient (Greek and biblical fundaments) may make us capable of better understanding ourselves and help us to avoid terrible events as World War II (XX-century best examples are L. Strauss or E. Voegelin)
ReplyDeleteHeroism is only about fighting and taking risk into the battle. Our mild societies are also calling for a greatness and heroism. If you are determined to stand up alone against a majority, as Socrates did, you msu be real hero.It's not about times and circumstances, but timeless attitude to transcendent values, that we are living for.
Mateusz
Today in class we learned that William Blake referred to The Bible as the Great Code of Art. Dr. Evans refers to Homer's Iliad as "the other side of this code," making it "complete". Explain the implications of Dr. Evans' claim. How should we then read the text? To what should we pay careful attention?
ReplyDeleteA code is a secret than can only be discovered by a few, and art in this case would be literature. So The Code of Art is a reference of discovering throughout literature the secrets the Iliad and Bible together have for us into making us better human beings and more importantly to learn the true meaning of greatness of heart and spirits and use them in our daily bases. Do to all of this books shouldn’t be taking as paper with letters on them, but words of heroes of heart and spirit, as art that can be included in our life and communities for a better way of living and most important as a code that can be interpreted a thousand times and every time new fascinating values will come into our minds and then into our live if we have patience and interest in being a greater person, a true heroes for those around you.
Additionally, what are the chief characteristics of Homer's Heroes? Remember that we are looking at the concept of heroism in its objective form. Having a moral code does not make one a hero. Instead, as stated in class, risk taking "is central to the idea of heroism".
Homer in the Iliad represent two types of heroes, the firsts ones are the war heroes, they have great fighting skills, strength, courage, and are very well seen in their communities, a perfect example is Aquilles he is the best warrior, he had no fears, determination, skills and he had great courage, but in the inside he is very selfish, he thinks only in himself and want honor no matter the means to it. On the other hand there are the true heroes those who are great in hart and spirit like Hector, he had all care in the world for his citizens, he had a lot of love for his family, he had courage, he was charismatic, he was strong, perseverance, he was great in battle, he was wise and also won his honor fighting for true meanings and patriotism but most importantly he sacrificed his live into serving his city. For this two types courage was the most important value if it can be called like that and that is exactly what risk taking is about, not being fearless but willing to overcome them for greatness.
Great Code of Art in the Bible can be taken as a guide between good and evil. As the one of the greatest source of any possible people behavior we can always by compared to today’s times. Bible is showing only right way of human being. But there is an likelihood that it will be interpreted as a guide for only catholic people because of its background which is of course a wrong way.
ReplyDeleteIliad can be taken as a supplement of the Bible. It is not showing things in such a clearly way as Bible. For example taking figures of Achilles and Hector we can say that both are heroes. But what kind? In Iliad there is not said that Hero must be a good person. There is only some descriptions what kind of character traits should that kind of figure have. For example: arête, determination, confidence etc. In Iliad we can see a realistic kind of heroes. Hector is brave, patriotic but also we can see him in fear in front of Achilles. On the other hand we have Achilles who is focused on winning, proud. But also vain and impetuous. We can call them as the „Real ones”.
Statement that “The Bible is great code of art” is very interesting, but can be ambiguous in the same time. We have to remember that for ancient Greeks “art” was sort of creative power opposite to nature. In that interpretation art is recognized as autonomic sphere of human activity. According to that sense mentioned statement is ambiguous, especially if we add that Homer’s Iliad is the other side of this code. It’s obvious that as a books they are human work, but in the other hand they are different to all other books. They are different because they are cross human sphere – both in some sense treat about immorality. Homer’s Iliad is concerning “earth immorality”, which is possible to achieve by honor, scarify and heroism. Bible is rather about “eternal immorality” achieved by virtuous of our souls and “eyes of soul” set up at God. In that sense they create coherent code – a secret code to transcendental world.
ReplyDeleteAnswering to first question – How should we then read the text? – I think we suppose do it with patient and keeping in mind that we are not reading casual letters but some kind of mentioned code and de-coding allowed us to discover hidden information and senses.
According to second question - To what should we pay careful attention? – I would say that is always depended to recent moment of our life and what we are looking for in proper moment.
Arek
Natalia's work
ReplyDeleteThe bible is a conduct and ethic code. The Iliad is a book that integrates the ethic and the moral principles from Greece empire times, which is the complement of the Christian ethic, with ones from of our western civilization.
The Christianism was supported in the greek ethic to be legitimated as a religion. that is the reason why in the territories that was stablished the Greek civilization, was stablished then the catholical religion.
We have to be very carefully reading both books, because both of them are codes, like master pieces, art codes. both are the history of our ancestors but also we have to connect this two books with our believes because they make no sence without beeing including in our personal lifes. For example, we should know that Eastern began as a greek holiday, and in our days is one of the most important dates for our religion.
The Homer's heroes are not the usual heroes we are expected to hear, the ones from the book seems to be real ones, besides having all the great characteristics my classmates have mentioned, I add some important ones; they suffer, they pray for help, they have tears, and they are finally mortals.
I think what code of art means, that the Iliad and the bible are both a combina
ReplyDeleteI think that when Dr. Evans said that “The Iliad” is the other side of the Bible (both as a Code of Art) we must define any of those sides in order to understand wich one and how the other side should be. If one of the sides turns to be white then its opposite side must be black for example.
ReplyDeleteIf we consider what we have learned already about the Iliad from a literary point of view and we say that this Code of Art is the narrative of Achilles Rage (The lead character) before war of troy started, his resistance to be involved in this until the point that is strictly necessary to achieve his goal, the absence of guilt watching his compatriots been slaughter, only feeling sad for those who were close to him died, all of this with the selfish intention to be remembered for ages to come, then we can say also that his behavior and personality is far from Plato teachings who says that leaders must have a number of ethic and moral values (love to the truth, gifted memory, greatness of the soul, affability, ally and friend of justice, strength and temperance) in order to be worthy to rule the city and its close to what Nicolas Maquiavelo who talks about acquire princedom by the power of the weapons that you own and that is best to be feared that loved.
If this is one side of the code then when we read the Bible in a literary point of view we must search en Jesús (Its lead character) opposite values that are shown in Achilles and we must pay attention when we analyze the facts and its personality the motives of his fight which could be the opposite from Iliad ones.
I think in the Iliad we see a clear example of human nature. Homer reveals the characteristics, personalities, skills and values of people who become heroes in the course of the story.
ReplyDeleteI also believe that Homer in the Iliad presents the heroes as well as people, so I think that those who become heroes have certain characteristics that make them unique, such as skills, determination, leadership, eloquence, ambition and passion. Also I think it is very important to submit to the heroes as human beings that respond to their call and asume the risks and responsability and answer it.
The two main root cultures with influence among Western culture are the Greek culture and the Jewish-Christian. Of course there is the influence of Roman culture, but it was built with a lot of Hellenic influence (as the Eneida attest, and the influence of Greek Philosophy), and the roman culture itself will turn into a mix of the two first in the Middle Ages (so, the Roman legacy for us is precisely the influence of both mentioned.
ReplyDeleteSo, having no doubt of this influence, for better understanding of what we are (the Western Men) we have to look all the way back, reaching the very roots of what kind of men we are suppose to be, considering our historical path. We cannot build better social-economical-cultural institutes for our society and ourselves without a previously and acceptable 'idea of Man' (the anthropological definition).
For understanding that, the best way is to look forward in these two codes, because they hold our first (and still) conception of Man, the very beginning of how the Western People describe (or think about) themselves.
In the Bible we have a lot of the answers for the question “what kind of ‘Man’ we are supposed to be”. But the Jewish-Christian experience is not the only one with influence. The other root of our anthropological definition is in the Greek culture, and so the Iliad: this huge collection of concepts about the Human being (or, the Western Man), developed in the heart of the Greeks, and followed by generations.
Having these two codes, we can answer, more deeply and truly the necessary question for developing better institutes for our way of living: the anthropological question “what we are supposed to be”, “what is the best of ourselves”.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWilliam Blake considered Bible as “the Great Code of Art”. It means that the Bible can be an inspiration for painters, poets and other artists. On the other hand, it can be also great source of the history and characters of humankind. All emotions, experiences, human natures that appear in our lives, around us, we can find in the Bible. All these are coded into allegories, so we need them to ‘uncode’ them. Homeric Iliad is a kind of complement to Bible. The main characteristics of the Iliad such as Achilles, Hector represent all kinds of human behaviors and emotions. Both Bible and Iliad give answers about our existence and motives of certain performance. Thus they should be read carefully and with awareness of their hidden sides.
ReplyDeleteChief characteristics of Iliad are courageous soldiers, honorable men and respected leaders, but they also have very human flaws. Beyond positive features they possess also revengefulness, merciless and disrespect. Achilles is godlike but revengeful, and Hector noble but proud.
The Iliad and the Bible are two main masterpieces that have captivated and educated for centuries. Both are considered as the main Code of Art, the code of human emotions so we can see everything about the human reflected on them. Like all the codes we need to decode the most important values in order to learn about the characters that appear on each book. They are full of values that can be considered as virtues. As the narrative is developed, the reader gets to see the relationship between incidents and gets to outline the portrait of their most important figures.
ReplyDeleteObjective hero definition came to refer to characters who, in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will for self sacrifice—that is, heroism—for some greater good of all humanity. This definition originally referred to martial courage or excellence but extended to more general moral excellence. Stories of heroism may serve as moral examples.
The heroes of the Iliad and the Bible share the courage, perseverance, and that they all have their own skills. But more than that, each hero has human qualities and defects as every human being. Heroes are then, mirrors that reflect mankind and they are also models for ordinary people, since they possess virtues that have to been reached and they make errors that must been avoided.
Moses is a great hero because he saved his people. The comparison with this figure and the heroes of the Iliad –Achilles and Hector- shows that he is the only hero who provides safety; in fact, Achilles, although he wins the last battle, provokes the death of many Achaeans, -particularly when he leaves the Trojan War-, and Hector, looses, leaving his people to its fate. Moses, on the contrary, saves the Hebrews, turning him into a great figure, compared nowadays with the most important biblical hero Jesus because they were both redeeming.
A.Berini
JUAN PABLO ALBA
ReplyDeleteI think that any text have a message implicit, but this text -referring to the Iliad- says more than the words can explain. And to understand what does Homer want to tell us, is necessary to focus in the situation; everything started because a man stole a woman, the most beautiful woman ever seen, this situation generated a war between two groups that were supported by the gods.
Based in this facts we need to read the Iliad trying to understand that all the things that happened was what gods wanted.
This reading reflect emotions, passions, in a difficult situation but specially the decisions that leader need to take in order to win the battle and bring succeed to his people, but also to give honor to the gods with a good battle. The leaders need to fight a war were the most important thing is the honor, it is the mission that they need to develop, and in that mission they can die or live.
Gods expect a lot of the leaders, and by his passions, feelings, thoughts and also speeches they show the greatness that lives inside of them.
By the decisions that they take, they show gods greatness.
We need to pay attention of the sacrifices that leaders need to take in order to be better as person and the ones that they need to take to help his people to grow.
The risks that the heroes needs to take, are the ones that are value to the gods.
A hero is not the person who took something risk it is the one who look for the risks at all times in order to grow in every opportunity that he has.
According to Dr Evans, the Bible and the Iliad together constitute the Code of Art. They provide the blueprint for leading a heroic life style by using the imagery of war as their context. Dr Evans further stated that the Iliad and the Bible should be understood as two sides of the same coin so, perhaps he is suggesting that virtues illustrated in the one, are turned inside out as vices within the other. He could also be referring to the spiritual and natural implications of the Code. The Bible, concerns itself with the spiritual battlefield in which the soul is confronted with the will of God and that of the flesh; whilst the Iliad relies on a natural war in which, heroes walk the tightrope between common-welfare on the one hand, and self-interest on the other. Lastly, his statement could imply that our understanding of humanity is dependent upon the combination of these books, and that the spiritual growth cannot stimulate or satisfy our fleshly needs and vice versa. Today, these seemingly irreconcilable concerns are still in contempt. Therefore, we are able to relate to the Code and learn from the experiences of those that have gone before, in an attempt to strike the appropriate equilibrium within our own lives.
ReplyDeleteThe Iliad, for example, tells a story of a number of characters, Achilles being the foremost of which, wanted to be heroes. One man’s terrorist has been known to be another’s freedom fighter, thus indicating that one’s perception of a hero is inevitably influenced by subjective factors. In my opinion, however, there are some objective criteria that most people will agree upon, namely unconditional love, faith and passion in that which one believes in, as well as profound courage to moreover, defend one’s stance in the face of ridicule, danger, temptation, and despair. One should also possess tenacious resilience and perseverance to not only passively conform to the spiritual or heroic cause, but to actively advocate and persuade others of its significance. At first blush, Achilles conforms to all of the above, not to mention his immaculate strength, therefore he seems to be the perfect hero. Whilst King Agamemnon and Paris, for example, lacks such determination and fails to take the amount of risks and leadership that one would expect their characters to. However, Achilles’ character is fatally flawed by his inability to control his rage and lack of nobility and integrity. His self-centered nature and willingness to desert his comrades in their time of need, reduces him to nothing more than an egoistic and vengeful coward. This more so than Agamemnon’s degradation in demanding Breisies’ company, brings Achilles’ name into disrepute. Hence, defiling his heroic status.
Loyalty is yet another criteria by which to objectively and comparatively judge heroism. As children of God we are not only expected to be loyal to his word, but to obey it. Heroes are similarly expected to possess this quality by pleading allegiance to their country and obeying the will of its people. The Bible and the Iliad are replete with examples where people are disloyal and disobedient. The Iliad goes further in depicting the disloyalty of the gods. This stands in stark contrast with the Biblical God whom, according to my knowledge, was never disloyal. Another stark contrast relates to honor, which is one of, if not the most prominent theme throughout the Iliad. Biblical heroes in my opinion, were not as addicted to honor as Homer’s heroes are. Perhaps this relates to the fact that they were more often than not, humble and not born into affluent families. They were average men, whom by God’s spirit performed miracles, and always acknowledged Him as their source of strength and salvation. To the contrary, Homer’s description thereof, suggests that the heroes seek after honor as if it were a good for which there is a demand. Thus, the heroic understanding of honor seems to be reduced to a (mere variable within an economic equation).
The desire to be remembered as honorable seemingly emanates from, what I believe to be, an obsession to create a legendary tale of immortality. This, for example, manifests itself in Hector’s remarks to his beloved, when he tells her that even if he dies in the war, and she falls victim to enslavement, she should console herself with the assurance that she would be known as the wife of a former honorable hero. Evidently and problematically honor preceded wisdom. Personally, my quest for heroism would not premised on the desire to be remembered, but rather to ensure social justice by being the voice for the most vulnerable segments in society, and I do not care whether people remember my name for years to come. I just want to do something good for them today! Hence, my disdain at the legendary implications driving Homer’s heroes. Notwithstanding my criticism, I do concede that such an understanding of honor, had positive implications because unlike today, honor was at least perceived as a fundamental component of man’s constitution, and the heroes devoted a lot of time and effort in yearning after it. From a contemporary perspective, people are so preoccupied and entangled within their personal afflictions that conversations about honor are few and far between. This is a most unfortunate state of affairs to which we, as heroes in our daily lives, should apply ourselves.
ReplyDeleteDespite my discontent with some of the choices made by the Code’s heroes, the Code overall, inspires us to pay careful attention to the manner in which heroes have responded to the insurmountable challenges, sacrifices, and extreme hardship which heroism necessitates. Forewarned is forearmed, thus the Code provides us with a forecast, giving us an opportunity to not make the same mistakes and in turn avoid the misfortunes coupled thereto. It further teaches us that immense power is coupled with equal responsibility. The Code also captures the fact that being a hero involves a great degree of turmoil, the successful navigation of which is, heavily dependent upon an individual’s virtuous fiber. It furthermore, provides us with the necessary skills so that we may armor ourselves against the onslaught of twentieth century spiritual erosion. Hence, we need to understand the essence thereof, so that it may enhance our understanding of the significance and consequences of every step that we tread on this journey of life. The Code awakens not only a sense of self-awareness, reason and reflection, but also fosters family and communal values. No matter how much attention we pay to these pros and cons, there is no telling how we would have acted if confronted with similar choices, and therefore it is easier to criticize, unless one has walked a mile in another’s shoes. Thus, I would suggest that we caution against perceiving heroic attributes as being cast in stone, and instead, equip ourselves with the skills needed to reason through the options with which life presents us so, that we may make the best decision under the circumstances.